- Andrei Alexandrovich, let's begin our conversation with the topic of the Ministry of education and science's relations with regions. A new ministry team is three years and a half. At first regional superiors felt offended by the ministry thinking they were left neglected and without protection. Now it seems there are no such complaints. Are you satisfied with the formed relations between the minister and regions yourself?

- I think that we have managed to establish a reasonable and efficient collaboration with regions. It is difficult for me to compare with what was before me, but from the very beginning I realized that we were one team with them, we had similar tasks and goals. Though our responsibility is bigger as we are a federal body of executive power. But as it is said - you take the burden, carry it. One of the first things I did after becoming a minister was to meet the heads of regional authorities at the Academy for advanced training and professional retraining of educational workers and specialists. Perhaps they felt insulted because a man from another sphere had been appointed as a minister, he was not from the educational system, he was unfamiliar to them. Now we gather all the heads of educational bodies at special two- or three-day seminars twice a year. I always speak at these seminars. The leading specialists from the ministry and agency take part in them. We discuss the given topics in an open dialogue. Apart from these meetings we hold regional discussions on a regular basis?

- Starting from last year the ministry organized a series of seminars and meetings, devoted to various directions of the national project "Education". Me and my colleagues from "Uchitelskaya Gazeta" were at almost all these seminars. In our opinion, at first the conversation developed with difficulty, but with time these meetings turned out to be serious professional discussions.

- Do you know why? Because it is a complicated project due to which fundamentally new and qualitative changes must take place in the field of education. We didn't put a question like - we have instructions and recommendations here in the center and you should follow them in the regions. We formed all these meeting on the basis of partnership. We searched and continue to search together reasonable decisions. And that also brought us together. Look at the map, I marked by flags those regions in which I've been during three years. Some of them I visited two, three or four times. I've counted recently - 45 regions. Not little. In each region I always met not only the officials, but also the headmasters and teachers of universities and students. This intercourse is comfortable for me. Even in the first days, when there were much more questions than now, when the financial situation was critical, I was completely satisfied with these meetings. They were always interesting, constructive, never formal, and though sometimes strict.

- You travel a lot and can compare. How has the educational system changed during the last year?

- The changes for the better have happened. The key change is a psychological break when people believed in positive alternations. Of course there are problems, there are complications. But in general the vector of movement is positive today. Not only the leaders of educational bodies are speaking about it - everyone is speaking about it.

- It is considered that the national project pushed all these changes?

- It is really so. But let's think why. Not because the money came to the regions, though it is an important factor, too. If to compare the resources received by regions within the national project with the general increase of financing the education, it is a little bit. I already said that during last year the consolidated budget for education exceeded a trillion rubles for the first time. This is a significant figure - we are leaving behind all - the defense, the law machinery, and the public health. There is a considerable growth in all the regions and municipal budgets. Nevertheless I think the main positive is not the advent of money in the educational system. It is the fulfillment of obligations taken by the authorities and society in the field of education. The national project "Education" is a vivid and precise example of it. You remember that in the beginning of 2006 not many people believed in the positive result. But what was promised was done. I think it played the key role.

Another key factor is that the education has become more open in practice and not in theory. True, the society is involved in the matters concerning education to a much greater extent. System changes in education which we waited for so long have started. They are carried out gradually. Not always people who work inside the educational system can formulate them with a single meaning. For example, today the principle that the fee can depend on the number of pupils is not neglected. Two years ago it seemed to be a nonsense. Remember the discussion about payment for form-mastering, when everybody said it was no difference how many pupils were in the class, five or twenty five, it didn't matter, it was the same headache. Today the logic that if there are five pupils in the class, the payment should be different from the class of twenty five children is not objected. I mean, people are basically ready to a considerable change of payment system.

- Andrei Alexandrovich, I think it logical that the complex projects of modernizing the educational system in the regions were not started immediately. Last year was a preparatory stage and an experimental yard, when it was found out if people were ready to such huge projects.

- This project has just started, but there is a clear sensation that people are ready for more considerable system changes in education and don't take this task with hostility. Yes, they speak about their fears and anxiety but there is not global neglecting. Readiness for changes is a typical example. Two years ago the dominating opinion was: don't change anything, don't touch education, only give money. I wouldn't like you to have a good sensation that everything is good in the educational system. On the contrary, everything is complicated, the system of education is still financed incompletely, and many things have been lost.

We think the principal task is the following: the training conditions should correlate with new requirements in every respect: sanitary code, fire and other safety, quality of methodic materials, teachers' training. But today I think that in general less than half schools of the country fit these requirements. We want that approximately 70% schoolchildren studied in the environment answering all the demands as a result of complex projects. It is a long way. We cannot cope with it at once, but we think - by "we" I mean not only the ministry - people of education think and believe that this target is achievable. Perhaps, it is the central effect of what is happening in the education.

- Andrei Alexandrovich, are you satisfied with the existing legislative base? Or are there new laws in demand?

- It is necessary to approve the law on level system of higher vocational education. Without it we won't be able to move on. There is one more thing, a very important one. This is the law on standards both in the field of education and in the sphere of vocational training.

- In your opinion, what is a standard of general education?

- Firstly, it should be aimed at a detailed elaboration of the process (to a lesser degree) and at defining the result and conditions providing the achievement of this result (to a greater degree). If we managed to write the standards in this way, giving more freedom to an educational institution and teachers for providing the quality, I think, it would be right.

- The content of the standards is connected with the answer to the question: what educational system do we need?

- You are absolutely right. We speak a lot about infrastructure problem, if to use the IT language - about "shell" problem, and much less about the content, about what fills this shell. We speak about USE, system of quality checking, informatisation, Internet installation. These are important things. But there are problems like what is to be transferred via Internet and what is to be checked by USE stay in the background. I cannot say they are not paid attention at all, but these issues are more complicated, especially for public discussion. It is easy to tell anecdotes about the color of Pushkin's Tatiana. It is more difficult to discuss the topics on how to give literature - classical and modern.

There is a general slogan, which I often cite and share, that the school and university should mainly train people to study. Concrete knowledge is important, but it is secondary, because life is changing fast. Yes, there is some basic knowledge which helps to move on afterwards. If to speak about school, I think there are two columns - philology, native language and everything connected plus mathematics which allows to form oneself up in a right way and to get information in natural sciences. A more difficult question arises then - how to build everything else on these corner stones? For example, to what extent do people need concrete knowledge in biology? It is obvious that there should be the understanding of evolutionary processed, but to what extent should this be described in concrete examples? Then, it is absolutely obvious that people must know their history. But how to teach it? Via a concentric method when you learn the same topics for several times or via a linear method? Should there be some general knowledge or is it important to know a detailed history with dates and concrete events? How much should home history be taught in connection with world history?

We know states which don't need to know history of other countries. Very developed states. But I think it is very important for a person to understand the place of his/her country in the world during the development process. There are crucial pragmatic things, e.g. the knowledge of information technologies. It is vital for our life today. At the same time it is necessary to do so that these technologies won't break people of the skill to think, that the skill to push buttons won't substitute ability, for example, to do sums in columns or in the head. When an individual can count using some rules in columns, on paper or in the head, he/she constructs certain logical connections. These connections create an appropriate way of thinking. An individual must also know the laws of social development and existence. To what degree should this subject be taught? How to put all these in certain frames? Don't forget that a school-leaver must be healthy. The standards must absorb everything stated above to create a harmonious training system, to nurture a healthy, self-confident and competent individual.

- Speaking about the contents of the standards we overlooked foreign languages, without which it is impossible for a modern human to achieve a success in the world.

- There are two moments here. First, we must change the system of teaching foreign languages at school fundamentally. School-leavers should not only understand a foreign language or read in it, but to speak it. And a student, who gets professional knowledge, should master a foreign language which will help him to succeed in profession. Here we come again to the standards. There are things we must improve fundamentally. I already said about the control equipment and the practice of USE realization. Basically, when we evaluate the result, we see that everything is normally happening. All nascent problems are corrected in motion. It concerns a delivery delay of certificates' originals and some bugs of providing secrecy at materials' transfer. These problems do not influence the general situation. But a sphere of education is a very sensitive thing. Even one person who didn't enter a university or didn't receive a document in time because of the system's bug is a very serious problem for us. The 'problem' means it mustn't happen. We should concentrate seriously on how to provide the absence of such bugs.

- Andrei Alexandrovich, in the sixties and seventies there was a splash of interest to what was being done in the field of education in the USSR. Our education truly was one of the best. Then there was a recession, and we lost the positions which had been our pride in former times. Where are we now, in your opinion, in comparison with the western countries?

- In comparison with the leading western countries, I think, our positions didn't change much. We're remaining behind today, paradoxically though, from quickly developing new countries. For example, I mean Korea or Singapore. Look, who wins at the international subject competitions. In some cases we are behind the Scandinavian countries. I think we don't lose in any extent to American education. On the contrary, in spite of all the problems, which we had, we even have a certain advantage over them.

- Some politicians speaking about former Soviet republics, claim that we have lost them politically and economically. What about education? What contacts do we have?

- Good contacts, in my opinion. They are our partners and friends, they are oriented at us. Just as we are oriented at them. Very many things were cut to the quick, but tissues are accreting. It concerns the educational system as well. Last year alone I met the colleagues from Tajikistan, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Moldova, they have a serious will to cooperate closely and to come to an agreement about the standards. Everyone understands, that there is not any way back, but knows the Soviet system was our general property. It is impossible to forget it. But we should modernize it. Nowadays the compulsory standards of education are both international and national in all the world. The world is global. Economics is global. We perfectly understand that if we don't listen and see to the trends of world educational system, we will originate problems for future economics. We should either follow the standards, establishing in the other countries, either set them ourselves. It is impossible to live on our own. No country in the world lives so.

- Does our education have anything for sale at the global market?

- I believe it does. We have a number of directions which are much in demand. For example, medical, engineering or mathematical education. We are still attractive for our compatriots from CIS. Though not only for the compatriots - for the main population as well. We are still interesting for, say, Africa. We should obtain the recognition of out diplomas to increase export of our educational services. There is one more problem - the conditions of living and training. We are taking up these matters. Education is the most efficient tool for advancement of our standards and our way of life to other countries. They provide the advancement of country's image, economical, social and political interests. It is a more effective advancement than any military supplies. Strictly speaking, any supplies of any products and technologies follow the export of educational services.

- Andrei Alexandrovich, from time to time there are rumors that when competitions are conducted, big money is gained at purchases and tenders. No proofs because no one wants to go to a newspaper or a ministry and to say - I gave 50 thousand dollars to get this project?

- Rumors about corruption are circulating all the time. Unfortunately corruption is a concurrent part of any bureaucratic system or any economics. I keep saying: let's fight the corruption together, let's cooperate. I ask to give me facts. And I hear: no, that didn't concern us but we heard from the others. I ask the others: the answer is the same. Still if someone tells me that he/she faced it, I ask: come on, don't keep back. The answer is: no, I don't want to get involved, it will come out more expensive". There were cases when very respected people wrote to me that they had lost their tenders because they hadn't brought money to the officials. I started to check the applications and saw that they had been made quite wretchedly. We are trying to achieve several tasks.

First, it is necessary to write application correctly. If someone thinks he/she didn't get the project from non-business reasons, let him/her appeal. Give us grounds of your claims. Bring and show. There wasn't any case. Yes, there are issues which cause serious anxiety. Some raider firms have showed up. They hand in an application with considerably lowered costs - and they have never dealt with such problems - but due to low costs they win tenders and then there are problems with supplies. Last year we had the first case with the national project when 30 million rubles of fine were paid by a firm that hadn't been able to deliver a qualitative equipment on term. Unfortunately this money went to budget and not to education. The law on state purchases was made in such a way that we cannot practically fight against these raider firms. It is prohibited to check qualification requirements. Public prosecutor's office has started an investigation of supplying some unlicensed equipment. Simple theft is behind that! Licensed equipment is entered to the price and unlicensed soft is delivered. The qualification of those, who receive it, is not enough to determine at once that they have been supplied what was not written in the contract. By the way some know what they are supplied - they participate in the deal themselves.

- Andrei Alexandrovich, what will the new school year like?

- It will be good. Complex projects are very important for schools. It is really a powerful tool of complex modernization and reorganization of general education system in the regions. If this instrument turns out to be successful, other regions will follow the way. It means the salary system will be changed and maximal number of schoolchildren will be able to study in the conditions answering the new requirements. Secondly, I think that this year we should pay more attention to the content. Though the standards haven't been approved yet, we are counting on a serious discussion about what to be taught and how to teach.

Now we have schools-leaders and teachers-leaders. It is a serious reference group which has to be involved into discussing these problems. The third theme of the new school-year is the questions connected with the new approaches of quality checking. We should bear in mind that USE is turning from an experiment to a normal mode. Besides there is a series of technical questions of equipment supply and informatisation. We don't completely understand what a unique project we have managed to realize. It took two years to connect the whole country up to the Internet.

Concerning higher education, this year the projects of the first group of winners of innovative universities competition are finishing. We will be able to estimate their results and to see what new quality of education we've got. This year we are also starting a smooth switch to a "baccalaureate-master" system. And one more issue on universities. We have entered the zone of considerable demographic recession. This year the number of eleven-formers leaving school has been reduced for the first time, and it has been reduced for 9% at once. That means very serious consequences for higher school. The leading universities of both our megapolises - Moscow and St. Petersburg - and perhaps of Tomsk, Rostov and Novosibirsk didn't feel it. But the country did. A considerable reduction of student's number has started.

I think this year should be transitional for all the universities. Each university and higher school must elaborate in general a new strategy, because by our estimation in 2010 the number of entrants may be halved in comparison with 2006. They won't sort out everyone. I can say clearly that we are going to establish certain requirements for admission. I have recently read in a newspaper that when the ministry says people, who got less marks than required, shouldn't be accepted to the universities, it violates the constitutional right of people to get a free higher education. I'd like to remind that free higher education can be given on a competitive basis which means a person must sum up two and two. So we will keep a certain level for all people entering to budget and non-budget places.

Generally there is no need to set a lot of targets for a year. It is possible to choose three or four key directions and to try to realize them.

- And finally, Andrei Alexandrovich, your message to our readers, all of which are connected with education, on the eve of new school-year.

- Dear teachers! I wish you to be optimistic. I believe we have all the reasons for that. I wish you not only to teach but to learn as well. To fit the requirements of the educational system everybody should learn. Requirements to the schoolchildren will be developed and so will to the teachers. Within changing system, when methodical provision and equipment are improving, the teachers must also perfect themselves. A teacher shouldn't know less than a pupil.